Tricia's Partial Mutterings

(a response to an email that my friend Robert sent to me)

Most of my questions on there are pretty retorical... but I always hope someone wants to respond in the comments section to get a good conversation going. It almost feels as if no one actually reads my blog at times. But then again when I talk to people they seem to know everything about my life.

Eh I don't know. I've done a lot of thinking about my kids lately and it's so weird because the summer we shared with them... they pretty much meant everything to us while they were there. Our lives revolved around them and somehow I don't think they quite see it that way. They see it as themselves as a unit and us just as outsiders. Don't really know how to explain it that well, but I think it becomes more and more apparent.

Do they really know me?
> They know you as you put out there to be known – and then some. But that's like every other relationship one has.

I think that I know the best parts of them, but do they see the best parts of me?
> What your kids see may not necessarily what you deem to be your "best parts" . . . and what they might consider your "best parts" may be different from your list . . . However, what matters is that, whichever parts of you that they do see gives them more than enough reason to maintain this relationship with you. One can only imagine that if they ever discover the true wonderful you, they will be even more grateful to have had your friendship throughout the years.

I think there are other more significant underlying issues that are at play here . . . such as the equation of relationship reciprocation with self validation, the effects of detached reflections of power relations, the tenacity of social norms . . . which I would gladly get into if I knew I could sum it up in a couple of paragraphs. You know, something with the succinctness "it takes two to tango," but without the condescension . . .

Or if I could use my experiences working with kids as a basis for discussion, especially considering the differing set of social norms and expectations that are present when I work with my kids . . .

And even then, since the observations or assurances I would present anecdotally would not be comparable, in effect, to that which is experiential, it seems moot to proceed.

Yeah, I know it sounds like a cop out . . . but the thought of approaching your prompt has gotten me a little down and lonely . . . which, coupled with what I would have written, well . . . there’s enough hypocrisy in the world as it is, eh?

One can only imagine that if they ever discover the true wonderful you, they will be even more grateful to have had your friendship throughout the years.
>>You kiss my ass so poetically Robert... I love it!

And even then, since the observations or assurances I would present anecdotally would not be comparable, in effect, to that which is experiential, it seems moot to proceed.
>>It isn't a cop out. I don't expect you to solve all the mysteries of my world Robert. There really are only about 15 people that can answer these quesitons for me in a true and valid way. Thing is, I would be shocked if any of them actually responded... (haha, trying to get a little challenge out of you guys)

the thought of approaching your prompt has gotten me a little down and lonely . . .
>>Lonely is also a perspective don't you think?

>>You kiss my ass so poetically Robert... I love it!
It’s not kissing ass if it’s not completely true . . .

>> I don't expect you to solve all the mysteries of my world Robert. There really are only about 15 people that can answer these quesitons for me in a true and valid way.
I’m surprised that you’re actually looking for a valid situation from without . . . and even more amazed at the intimation that there is a tangible and distinct solution.

Indeed, having peers your age with whom you can relate to give you feedback is indeed the appropriate approach in working it out . . . the “loneliness” that you pointed out happens when you neglect to carry out these essential self-realizations and simply and blindly devote your life to your kids –

Until one day, you realize that the once “superficial” presence of social norms in determining the line that separated inside/outside, personal/public areas and shaping the depth of relationships, has escalated to become an overwhelming stigmatization that keeps them from developing in the first place . . .

It’s not kissing ass if it’s not completely true . . .
>> again... you are too kind (just keep it coming... I need to be assured affection)

...overwhelming stigmatization that keeps them from developing in the first place . . .
>> so you suggest forgetting about the line all together and just dive right into a peer relationship? when I mentioned the 15 people that can answer my questions i was actually reffering to my kids themselves...

Hmm -- I hadn't realized that your 15 were your kids . . . we should explore this a little more, preferably where I don't hafta think and type at the same time . . .

In any case, the whole idea of forgetting "the line" is probably not the best thing to do, for all the reasons that you've mentioned earlier, with comfort zones and the like. At this point, since asking your "close 15" might not be conducive in you getting a straight answer, I dunno if you wouldn't wanna hear similar experiences in dealing with "the line." I can extend my personal experiences dealing with this matter to you if you'd like . . . but then again, my stories are from another time and under a different set of social norms . . .

But then again, you can clearly see how *well* I coped, in the past, when I dealt with my kids (you know that "stigmatization" comment that you responded to previously) . . . so just a little caveat --

Well, here's one of the 15 ;-) and I guess I never gave "the line" all that much thought, but it's definitely there. It's a lot different tho from when we were younger, because then the counselors were completely separate from us. But the last two years, you guys were more like mentors, rather than distant adults in charge of us. But there's still a certain degree of separation, that we're still "your kids." I don't think that will change too much next year, either. But we were not Wanish without you guys, you weren't the outsiders, without you three we would have gone absolutely nowhere. This is really the only year I have kept in contact with any of my counselors for longer than about 2 weeks. Not just because I thought you were awesome adults that I looked up to, but because you are awesome friends. You guys didn't talk down to us at all, and still managed to maintain the camper/counselor thing. As for seeing the best of you and you seeing the best of us, I think that camp brings out most of the best of people. It's like when you said that I'm a lot calmer outside of camp-there's a different mentality, and I find it interesting that I see my "true self" as Jabberwocky, who I have truly been for only about a month out of my life...and not as the Virginia of day-to-day life. It's like all my good side goes to camp, and my bad side stays home. You guys are still quite a mystery, but I think we do see your best parts: you truly care about people, are fun, and are just...camp-ish. We don't want to destroy that idyllic image, so will probably avoid getting so close to any of you guys that we do. I think that's what the line's all about, and that it will stay there, as it should. Tho maybe you'll come to be more like our soccer moms than our counselors :-P